Legislature(2007 - 2008)BELTZ 211

04/27/2007 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY


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01:39:50 PM Start
01:40:55 PM Confirmation Hearing, Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar Association
01:46:19 PM Confirmation Hearing, Violent Crimes Compensation Board
01:57:27 PM Confirmation Hearing, Commission of Judicial Conduct
02:05:37 PM Confirmation Hearing, Alaska Judicial Council
02:16:35 PM SB141
02:32:44 PM SB38
02:54:50 PM Adjourn
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ Board Confirmations: TELECONFERENCED
Board of Governors of the Alaska Bar
Association, Dr. Donald McLean - Wasilla
Commission of Judicial Conduct
Henry Novak - Kenai
Alaska Judicial Council
Charles Kopp - Kenai
Violent Crimes Compensation Board
Gerad Godfrey - Valdez
+ SB 38 SALVIA DIVINORUM AS CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE TELECONFERENCED
Moved SB 38 Out of Committee
+ Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled TELECONFERENCED
= SB 141 LIMITED LIABILITY COMPANIES
Moved SB 141 Out of Committee
        SB  38-SALVIA DIVINORUM AS CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE                                                                     
                                                                                                                              
2:32:44 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH announced the consideration of SB 38.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT,  sponsor of SB  38, said Mr.  Stancliff would                                                               
introduce the bill.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
DAVE STANCLIFF, Staff  to Senator Therriault, said  the bill will                                                               
add  Salvia  divinorum,  the   most  potent  naturally  occurring                                                               
hallucinogenic substance  on the planet,  to the state's  list of                                                               
controlled substances.  He cited cautionary testimony  from users                                                               
and said that young people  in particular are being targeted. The                                                               
problem law enforcement has with  this substance is that it can't                                                               
be  detected in  the bloodstream.  Another problem  is that  it's                                                               
readily available over  the Internet and Alaska  is considered to                                                               
be  a "green-light"  state for  shipping the  substance. In  fact                                                               
it's being  sold down the street  and in other places  around the                                                               
state  as incense.  Indications are  that shipments  stop or  are                                                               
much  reduced when  an area  becomes "red-light."  Simply because                                                               
the substance can't  be identified in the  bloodstream should not                                                               
be an  impediment to saying  that Alaska is  not a place  to sell                                                               
Salvia divinorum.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SB 38 simply places Salvia divinorum  on same schedule II list as                                                               
peyote,  mescaline  and  LSD.  This   is  not  a  safe  drug,  he                                                               
concluded.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:39:26 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  FRENCH recalled  the bill  coming  through judiciary  last                                                               
year but  he didn't recall its  presence in local head  shops. He                                                               
asked if this is a new phenomena.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF  replied he  discovered one  shop in  Anchorage and                                                               
one in  Fairbanks. Since  that time a  number of  other locations                                                               
have the substance including one  down the street here in Juneau.                                                               
It's a fairly  good source of revenue. You can  buy the leaf, the                                                               
plant, or the extract. Use  is proliferating and youths are being                                                               
targeted.  Many experienced  "mind  travelers"  warn against  its                                                               
use, particularly for  youths. But there is  support for allowing                                                               
people over  age 18 to  use the  substance. That's a  policy call                                                               
you have to think about, he said.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
2:41:38 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  McGUIRE asked  if the  problem is  that law  enforcement                                                               
can't stop sales  because there's nothing on the  books about the                                                               
substance.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR.  STANCLIFF  said that  is  the  problem; currently  there  is                                                               
nothing that would allow interdiction.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  McGUIRE  suggested  it  might be  time  to  consider  an                                                               
ability  for the  Department of  Public Safety  to use  something                                                               
like  the  emergency  regulation  process  before  going  to  the                                                               
legislature for a full vetting.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF said an advantage to  law enforcement is that it is                                                               
very  difficult  to  grow  Salvia divinorum  in  places  that  it                                                               
doesn't occur naturally.  If Alaska were to  become a "red-light"                                                               
state  it  would be  easier  to  control  than a  substance  that                                                               
readily grows here.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
2:44:56 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR FRENCH  questioned why the federal  government hasn't taken                                                               
any action on this substance.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR.   STANCLIFF  answered   it   is  on   the  Drug   Enforcement                                                               
Administration (DEA) watch list  and federal legislation is being                                                               
considered. Also,  the Navy  bans this substance  as part  of its                                                               
administrative  code. "I  think they're  just lagging  behind the                                                               
states…and the states aren't waiting," he added.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH pointed  out  that the  substance  is legal  today.                                                               
Passing this law means that in 90  days it would be a B felony to                                                               
possess  and an  A  felony to  sell or  distribute.  It seems  as                                                               
though we've either  severely under reacted on one  side or we're                                                               
about to severely over react on the other, he said.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF  said he  isn't sure what  happened with  regard to                                                               
transition periods  when other psychotropic substances  were made                                                               
illegal.  There  is an  increased  awareness  and he  knows  that                                                               
Internet  sites warn  that  Alaska is  looking  at outlawing  the                                                               
substance. Currently  someone could  argue that they  thought the                                                               
substance was  sage and they'd have  a good shot at  a successful                                                               
defense  because  the  best  chemists  at  the  state  lab  can't                                                               
identify the psychotropic substance from the plant.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  clarified that the  penalty for  a C felony  is 0-5                                                               
years with  no presumptive sentence.  The penalty for a  B felony                                                               
is  0-10  years  with  no presumptive  sentence,  but  there's  a                                                               
guideline for  serving. Referring to  the statement that  the lab                                                               
can't identify the  substance, he questioned how  the crime could                                                               
be prosecuted.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF said  a lab can identify the  substance that causes                                                               
the psychotropic reaction. The  chemical and botanical difficulty                                                               
is to identify that particular  plant among thousands in the sage                                                               
family.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:49:08 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI  referred  to  an article  that  says  that                                                               
Salvia  divinorum has  medical and  research  value. Noting  that                                                               
it's potentially  being used as  a non-addictive  painkiller, for                                                               
Alzheimer's disease,  and mental  illness he  asked if  this bill                                                               
would ban medical use or research.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. STANCLIFF said no. In fact  this is the only substance of its                                                               
kind that  promises to  help people who  have addictions  to more                                                               
serious substances.  On the other  side there's evidence  that it                                                               
exacerbates  depression. It  is  an  unpredictable substance  and                                                               
very little is known about it.  Error on the side of caution, but                                                               
keep the door open for medical and scientific purposes, he said.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR McGUIRE added there is  nothing in the substance schedule                                                               
that  prohibits prescription.  The bill  says the  penalties come                                                               
into  play unless  the substance  is  prescribed. I  don't see  a                                                               
problem  as  long as  research  and  prescription by  a  licensed                                                               
physician aren't prohibited.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  FRENCH observed  that  if the  state  makes the  substance                                                               
illegal, head  shops will  stop carrying it  and the  market will                                                               
evaporate.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  McGUIRE suggested  the committee  consider an  effective                                                               
date to allow  the public time to learn about  the change in law.                                                               
Intent language  could also be  added to  make folks as  aware as                                                               
possible.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH brought up the topic of an effective date.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  said his  sense is that  a limited  number of                                                               
sites  within the  state  are  selling the  substance  so a  long                                                               
period isn't necessary.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH agreed that 90-days would do it.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:53:39 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  THERRIAULT noted  that the  poison quarterly  newsletter                                                               
warns against using Salvia divinorum.  "There's a lot of alarming                                                               
information about  this and  the power  of this  drug so  I think                                                               
it's advisable that we do take  the step that is suggested in the                                                               
legislation today," he stated.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR FRENCH  said he supported  the bill in a  previous session.                                                               
Finding  no  further  questions or  testimony  he  closed  public                                                               
testimony.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  McGUIRE motioned  to report  SB 38  from committee  with                                                               
individual  recommendations and  attached  fiscal note(s).  There                                                               
being no objection, it was so ordered.                                                                                          

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